A spirited debate between strong supporters of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton

Link to video

Link to podcast

Originally from Great Britain, Anna Evans became an American citizen in 2009. She just ran her second (and last) losing campaign for Hainesport Township Committee, a committee that has been 100% Republican for decades. Anna is an Adjunct English Professor, published poet, and a strong supporter of Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign.

Jeff Epstein is an independent journalist with Citizens’ Media TV, which primarily covers politics in New Jersey’s third Congressional district (which includes Hainesport). For six months, Anna’s campaign sponsored Citizens’ Media TV to livestream their committee meetings.

Jeff ran on the ballot with Bernie Sanders, was only one of only around 40 candidates in the country to be personally endorsed by the senator, and was a delegate for him at the 2016 Democratic National Convention. Jeff was also a finalist for Brand New Congress.

Months ago, Anna and Jeff had a discussion about the 2016 election and the Bernie versus Hillary divide. Both left upset and emotional. This is their second try.

On one side is an avowed, although not naive, idealist who demands that the Democratic Party and its candidates be the best they can be – not just “better than the Republicans.” They must forsake big donors and fight for truly progressive policies such as Medicare for All. Jeff says we should “fight for the whole loaf” and “what we deserve,” knowing that we might not get it.

On the other side is a realist and pragmatist who is concerned, in our corrupt campaign finance system, that this pushing for idealism greatly increases the chances that Democrats will lose. Anna says that, given “terrible” Republican policies such as wanting to eliminate the minimum wage entirely, that the differences between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton (and their “wings” of the party) is not all that dramatic.

In a twisted way, demanding better makes Republicans and their truly harmful policies more likely.

Resources referenced in the interview:


  1. The problem is not just that the Republicans can easily raise more money to win elections; the more damaging result is that the Democrats keep nominating candidates that suck up to Wall Streets in order to easily raise money to win elections. This turned the Democratic Party into the second Republican Party that also fails to serve/represent the 99%. I enjoyed listening to this conversation and don’t understand why people who disagree don’t do this more often. Two thumbs up. (On a side note, Anna should run like Bernie Sanders; Republicans like him (and vote for him) because they trust him. Lying isn’t a great political strategy.)


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